200430-N-NO101-150
WASHINGTON (April 30, 2020) An artist rendering of the guided-missile frigate FFG(X). The new small surface combatant will have multi-mission capability to conduct air warfare, anti-submarine warfare, surface warfare, electronic warfare, and information operations. (U.S. Navy graphic/Released)
Defense News has a short post, “Surface navy emphasizes frigates in its latest modernization plans.”
It includes a couple of statements by the Navy’s director of surface warfare that I think might be significant.
“We want to build a lot of frigates and [have] somewhat smaller, very capable ships being proliferated out through the fleet,” Rear Adm. Fred Pyle told Defense News on Dec. 7. (emphasis applied–Chuck)
and
But also of importance, he added, will be the ability to remain on station longer and require less help from fleet tankers and other logistics ships.
Ships, somewhat smaller than the 7,291 ton FFG but with long endurance. Bet it will have space for unmanned systems. Sounds like might make a decent cutter. Perhaps a dual service ship. Build the cutters with fewer weapon systems, but with the option to add them on if needed.
I may be a bit prejudiced in favor of dual service ships, because of my experience on Duane, a Treasury class cutter, a ship based on a Navy gunboat design. Because of its origin, it was better than it had to be, and outlived ships completed ten years after the 327s.
Very curious what they will come up with.
Chuck Hill's CG Blog 
This is very likely the FRC base design if will (and already is in PATFORSWA) serving the Navy very well. Bollinger/Edison Chouest have been lobbing for a while now, hopefully their efforts are paying off. With a few very minor habitability design tweaks, endurance can be improved (re: slightly bigger reefers, dry stores, and a better designed laundry (it just needs a vent!). Maybe the Navy won’t want a stern launch as well (adding space for additional mods).
He does talk about USVs and there is a chance some will be based on the FRC but where he is talking about ships somewhat smaller than 7000 ton frigates that probably means something about NSC size, about 4500 tons full load.
Would not be surprised to learn that HII had finally convinced the Navy the upgunned NSC was a good idea after all.
I would press for a corvee based on OPC at this point just to increase competition and keep price low. We could get that ship up to 24.5 knots and double the power of the electric motors for a good speed on electric propulsion.
Lengthening the OPCs enough to add a second engineroom with duplicate power would push them up to 26-27 knots and would provide a place to mount VLS.
What Navy thinks of as a smaller surface ship and everyone else are two different things, the $1 billion 7,400mt Constellation class Navy classifies as a Small Surface Combatant and have even mentioned a future MkII which would be larger, presumably with additional VLS cells.
Yes, the US Navy is starting to build frigates that are larger than the current destroyers, and destroyers that are larger than the current cruisers. the Constellation Class Frigate is even larger than the Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers that are still being built, and the DDG(X) destroyer will be larger than the current Ticonderoga Class cruisers.
With destroyer-sized frigates and cruiser-sized destroyers, what
is the Navy going to build next, a battleship-sized cruiser? An imperial star-destroyer-sized aircraft carrier?
Instead, how about some frigate-sized corvettes (or corvette-sized corvettes)? Unlike most other nations, the US Navy currently has no corvettes (unless you count the LCS). A frigate-sized corvette (or even a corvette-sized corvette) would make an excellent high-endurance Coast Guard cutter when it comes time to replace the NSC or OPC.
So far the Constellation class will still be a bit smaller than even the earliest Burke class and considerably smaller than the Flight IIIs.
This seems to be an announcement that they see they cannot build enough FFGs to meet all their requirements and they need to build large numbers of smaller ships. This is probably good news for second tier shipsyards like Bollinger because I think they will get some of the business while top tier yards build DDs and FFs.
It may mean we will not build all 25 OPCs if a better design in the form of a dual service ship comes along.
Why does everybody assume drones will be small?
Always amazes me.
Cheaper ships yes. Smaller ships? No.
Perhaps.
or
According to the 20 Dec. 2023 published “Navy Large Unmanned Surface and Undersea Vehicles: Background and Issues for Congress” CRS report
” … The Navy envisions LUSVs as being 200 feet to 300 feet in length and having full load displacements of 1,000 tons to 2,000 tons, which would make them the size of a corvette … ”
Click to access R45757.pdf
That would be “somewhat smaller” than the Constellation-class frigates
These reports are a little inaccurate when they point to the selected MUSV hull from Overlord as a LUSV prototype.
ACTUV->MDUSV = Seahawk Sea Hunter
Original Navy MUSV RFI was for a 50 meter max hull. They selected Overlord’s 194′ Ranger/Mariner hull which is still longer than their revised definition of an MUSV hull. My understanding is the final Overlord vessel will be similar to Ranger/Mariner except will be on the related 205-206′ hull.
That is a great deal smaller than the Constellation class. The way its written I don’t think they are talking about an unmanned system.
I feel like the idea of up-arming the NSC has been pounded so hard in Proceedings and everywhere else that you’re right. I fear that with only the 11th left to build and LLTM for a twelfth, the window is closing for this idea to be feasible.
The concept only works if HII can get the price down to something that makes sense for the Navy.
I wrote an article that (somewhat) discusses this back in 2022…
https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/03/u-s-navy-cno-says-light-destroyers-are-possible-in-future-fleet/
Nice read. Not sure how I missed it. I think the trick is the US design standards for survivability probably exceed other navies, even Japan. I’d like to see a cheap Fl IV Burke to compete with FFG-62. We could probably get a better ship for not that much more money if you use the FFG gear as the baseline.
Thanks!
SeaRAM can replace 20mm Phanalx CIWS, not RIM-116 RAM launcher as RAM requires other sensors to shoot whereas SeaRAM uses the Phalanx radar dome…my goof, but I lack the Admin access to correct that. I might have to submit to Admin and fix it someday…
Anyway, virtual expo access is over now that COVID-19 has diminished. One has to attend these expos in person and Naval News already has reporters living near these expo locations which is cheaper than flying someone over there.
Thus, I can’t really follow up on these article topics anymore by asking the US Navy’s top Flag Officers these questions over expo video :-(.
That would be a ship between the Burkes and the FFG so at least as large as the FFG.
The verbiage sound like a re-imagining of the SSC, which was a re-imagined LCS. There is still a segment of the navy which wants to play with small surface ships with various missions, even after the disaster of the LCS…
If they want long range, they will not be recycling the Freedom class LCS. Its range was extremely short and its cruise speed on diesels was low.
It’s either that or the Navy’s leadership just realized they will never be able to afford all the Constellations and Burkes they need.
I think for the US Navy, they should look at getting a Corvette for presence missions.
If all we were worrying about was presence or piracy, Offshore Patrol vessels would suffice, but we have a real deficit in our ASW capabilities because nuclear submarines are an ocean spanning threat. In wartime there will be no areas that are safe from the threat of submarines.
We can make good ASW corvettes that are smaller than 5,000 tons.
What I am thinking is more in line with the Gowind class Corvette or the SIGMA Corvette/Frigate Design. The SIGMA especially in the version that the Royal Moroccan Navy and Indonesian Navy version. It would be a Light frigate/Corvette with ASW and ASUW capabilities.
The need to operate rotor craft will drive size.
Yes I know the RCN operated Sea Kings from tiny decks. But 6000 tonners operating 2/3 cabs would be better.
@X, 6000 tons might be where they would end up, but the NSCs and both LCS can operate two H-60s so doesn’t have to be any bigger than 5000 tons. If they are serious about building large numbers, they need to stop making every single ship a superhero and think about how to make teams of smaller ships work.
If we’re looking between 5000 and 6000-ton ship, then I think somewhere between La Fayette-class frigate and HHI’s NSC version of a patrol frigate.
Paging Chuck Hill
Your presence is wanted in the wardroom
US Coast Guard’s Role in the Blue Pacific on the Rise
https://thediplomat.com/2023/12/us-coast-guards-role-in-the-blue-pacific-on-the-rise/
Sounds interesting
Who would build these hypothetical corvettes? Assuming Austal gets the rest of the OPC contracts, plus the other stuff they have, it doesn’t seem like they would have the capacity. I assume that Ingals is the frontrunner to be the second FFG yard if that ever happens, they would have some capacity once the NSC are wrapped up. If they are building an FFG or two a year (skeptical they could build two a year, same with Marrinette) I can’t see them taking on a corvette contract as well.
Bath hasn’t demonstrated that they can be cost competitive, so it’s hard to see them winning a contract on a budget ship.
I guess Bollinger would be a possibility, maybe.
I think Bill is right. There are some in the Navy that would still like low cost, 3-5 thousand tons surface combatants. But given the LCS debacle, it’s hard to have much confidence the navy could get on the same page and stick to a set of requirements, specs, conops, and budgets for that kind of ship, even if it’s needed.
They kill every small ship program. The Cyclone Class, the Mk6, and the LCS.