Philippines and China in Standoff–former USCGC Center Stage

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https://i0.wp.com/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Scarborough_Shoal_Landsat.jpg

Photo credit, NASA Landsat 7 image of Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea

The former USCGC Hamilton, now BRP Gregorio del Pilar, is at the center of a standoff with the Chinese over a remote atoll shaped group of rocks and shallows called variously Scarborough (or Panatag) Reef or Shoal.

Both the Chinese and the Philippines claim sovereignty.

A Philippine patrol plane located eight Chinese fishing vessels inside the atoll. With the Gregorio del Pilar now on scene, two Chinese Maritime Surveillance vessels are blocking Philippine fisheries enforcement action against the fishing vessels and the Chinese are demanding the Philippine Navy depart their waters; while the Philippines is asserting it will enforce its sovereignty. Diplomacy is given lip service, but the standoff is ongoing. The US has a treaty obligation to the Philippines (subject to interpretation of course) and there are calls for US assistance.

A long discussion from the Philippine point of view here.

Photo: Philippine flag planted on Scarborough Shoal, Photographed by Adel Rosario, 05:11, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

File:Panatag Shoal.jpg

358 thoughts on “Philippines and China in Standoff–former USCGC Center Stage”

  1. This is still ongoing. The former USCGC Hamilton, now Gregorio del Pilar, has departed after being replaced by a Philippine CG vessel. The Chinese brought in a third maritime surveillance vessel but subsequently one of the three departed. Three of the eight fishing vessels have also apparently departed the area. Reportedly a second Philippine vessel is in the area.

    Diplomatically, reports from the Philippines indicated both sides have agreed to do nothing to escalate the situation, but they are still in standoff mode.

    Info on the PCG vessel here: http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=16098.0

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  4. Looks like the US upset the balance of power and the Chicoms are proving their point that they will not stand for it in their backyard. If this turns ugly, ironic that the “lifesaving service” ended up being the one which facilitated the deaths of hundreds of Filipinos in a conflict with the Red Chinese that would likely would not have came to a head like this had we not given them the WHEC in the first place.

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    • What balance of power? The PI hasn’t the equipment to come close to the Chinese. Ask the Vietnamese. They have already had one ‘at sea’ war over the Spratley’s. The Vietnamese lost and their forces included a former USCG 311′ cutter.

      The only way to counter the Chinese is to have the SEA countries gang up and make in too costly in ships and public relations. In 1979, the Chinese and Vietnamese had about a 3-week war and no one was concerned about the thousands of causalities.

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  5. We are into day 6. Looks like two Philippine ships (one Navy, one CG) and two Chinese Surveillance ships still in the area.

    To amplify on Bill’s comments above, I found a bit more information on the battle between Chinese and South Vietnamese Naval forces 19 Jan. 1974. As you might notice it was actually over the Parcel Islands, a similar but distinct group from the Spratley Islands. Also Scarborough reef is a separate isolated formation well Northeast of the Spratleys. All of it, however, falls within the expansive claims the Chinese make to the virtually the entire South China Sea, including waters others recognize as the EEZ of other nations.

    General background of the battle and its results are here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Paracel_Islands

    Here is a bit of analysis of the fighting I found here: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?157294-Real-footage-China-massacred-64-people-with-37mm-anti-aircraft-guns/page15
    My comments are at the bottom
    ———————————————————————————————————————–
    In answer to this question: “Seriously how do 3 frigates + 1 corvette (Vietnam) lose to 4 corvettes (Chinese)?”

    “Well, you have to know first that it was not an usual fleet action. In the battle of 1974, there had been some maneuvers and bumping of vessels between both sides for a couple of days before the shooting started. When the shooting started, the distance between both sides’ vessels were only about 2000 meters and PLAN vessels also hastily closed in to even less than 300 meters. At such a close range, the better fire control and larger calibers of the main guns on the RVN vessels did not give them any advantage. Also, RVN vessels had higher dry deck. It was not easy to depress the main guns low enough to engage the smaller close target. Contrastly, PLAN vessels’ fast-firing 37mm and 25mm AA cannons could easily maul the conn tower, the gun mounts, and whole expose RVN dry decks.

    “Let’s do a comparison of both side’s force:

    Vietnamese Navy

    RVNS HQ-4 (ex-USS Forster, DE-334)
    1250 tons
    3 × 76mm guns (3×1)
    2 × 40mm AA guns (1×2)
    8 × 20mm AA guns (8×1)
    3 × 21 in torpedo tubes (1×3)
    8 × depth charge projectors
    1 × depth charge hedgehog
    2 x depth charge tracks

    RVNS HQ-5 (ex-USS Castle Rock, AVP-35)
    1800 tons
    1 × 5 inch/38 caliber (127mm) dual-purpose gun
    1 or 2 x 81-mm mortars
    Several MGs

    RVNS HQ-16 (ex-USS Chincoteague, AVP-24)
    1800 tons
    1 × 5 inch/38 caliber (127mm) dual-purpose gun
    1 or 2 x 81-mm mortars
    Several MGs

    RVNS HQ-10 (ex-USS Serene, AMS-300)
    650 tons
    1 × 76mm gun
    4 × Bofors 40mm guns
    6 × 20mm cannon
    1 × Hedgehog
    4 × Depth charge projectors
    2 × Depth charge racks
    2 × Minesweeping paravanes

    “Note: AVPs should have some 40mm and 20mm cannons. But these AVPs were used by US Coast Guard before handing over to RVN so they lacked fast firing cannons.

    “PLAN

    No. 271 (USSR Kronstadt Submarine Chaser)
    No. 274 (USSR Kronstadt Submarine Chaser)
    300 tons
    1 X 85mm gun
    2 X 37mm cannon (2 X 1)
    6 X 25mm cannon (3 X 2)

    No. 396 (PLAN 010 class minesweeper)
    No. 389 (PLAN 010 class minesweeper)
    600 tons
    4 X 37mm cannon (2 x 2)
    4 X 25mm cannon (2 x 2)
    Note: One of the two had replaced one 37mm mount with a single 85mm gun

    So, the firepower balance sheet is:

    RVN
    2 X 127mm gun
    4 X 76mm gun
    6 X 40mm AA cannon
    14 X 20mm AA cannon

    PLAN
    3 X 85mm gun
    10 X 37mm AA cannon
    20 X 25mm AA cannon

    If it was a stand-off fight, RVN would be better off. But it’s clear that PLAN would have the upper hand in the close-in fight. “Close in and punch it out” was also their traditional tactics vs. ROCN vessels in ’50s and ’60s.

    “This battle was not a “miracle” as PLAN propaganda tried to make people believe. The engagement started at around 10:21AM (Chinese time). After the battle of about 40 minutes, both sides were hurt and could not continue, with one vessel disabled on each side. However, PLAN had dispatched two 037 class submarine chasers as reinforcement and was approaching the area quickly. RVN vessels detected the approaching PLAN vessels, gave up the hope of rescuing HQ-10 and retreated. PLAN reinforcement (No. 281 and No. 282) arrived the area at about 11:30AM. They proceeded to within 550 m of the disabled HQ-10 and began to rake it with their 8 X 57mm guns and 8 X 25mm cannons at 12:12PM. HQ-10 sunk at 14:52.

    “Last edited by Clown123; 05-24-2009 at 11:35 PM.”
    ———————————————————————————————————————–
    This was 40 minute battle fought at extremely close range between small ships. None of the ships were sunk during the battle. RVNS HQ-10 (ex-USS Serene, AMS-300) went into battle with one of its two engines disabled and the second engine was disabled during the fighting leaving it dead in the water. It was left to be overwhelmed by the Chinese vessels which remained on scene, but it still took four and a half hours to sink the ship. This is another demonstration of the relative ineffectiveness of gunfire in stopping a ship with a determined crew.

    One other note, the Chinese subchasers enjoyed a considerable advantage in speed and maneuverability and worked in behind the AVPs where their guns could not bear.

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  8. Ten days now, this is still ongoing. China has sent a third maritime surveillance ship, their largest and newest.

    The Philippines says they will take their case to the International Tribunal on the Law of the Seas (ITLOS) unilaterally if the Chinese refuse to participate.

    http://globalnation.inquirer.net/34079/philippines-ready-to-go-to-world-court-%E2%80%98unilaterally%E2%80%99-over-scarborough-row

    The US and the Philippines is starting an exercise in the South China Sea, exercise Balikatan, though April 28. It involves the USS Essex’ Amphibious Ready Group, but is primarily a disaster relief scenario.

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  9. The standoff has been going for 13 days now with no resolution in sight.

    The Philippines claim they will continue to keep a vessel in the area. http://globalnation.inquirer.net/34447/aquino-philippines-owns-scarborough-shoal-vessels-to-stay

    The Philippines has asked that other nations condemn China’s position and support their position relative to the Conflict. http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/04/22/12/other-nations-must-take-stand-china-ph

    The Philippines has announced a major oil and gas discovery at Recto Bank in the Spratleys so there is now even more motivation for continued conflict. http://www.interaksyon.com/article/30110/recto-bank-natural-gas-reserves-bigger-than-those-in-malampaya—-doe

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  10. I know the Philippines are strapped for Military equipment and the Russians are strapped for Cash. Maybe they can buy some Russian Hardware such as ships and Aircraft.

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    • They hope to get some “used but good” equipment from the Europeans, particularly the Italians, as they are downsizing their military.

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      • Well, the Russians are strapped for cash and the Philippines are strapped for military hardware. It’s a perfect combination because the Russians can sell them Ships, Submarines and Aircraft. With the Philippines they can get a used Udaloy destroyer,Neustrashimyy class frigate, Gepard class frigate or the more newer Steregushchy class corvette.

        The ship I heard the Philippines are considering buying from the Italians are the Maestrale class frigate,Lupo class frigate and the Durand de la Penne class destroyer

  11. Still ongoing. There are now five Chinese F/V, two Chinese government vessels and two Philippine government vessels there.

    Here is an interesting timeline of events in the area. It appears the frequency of incidents is increasing, but it is also apparent these incidents have been happening for a long time. Several times there were fatalities, but they have managed to avoid a more general conflict; however the balance of power is changing.
    http://www.cnas.org/flashpoints/timeline

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  12. Very high level meeting planned between US SecState and SecDef and their Philippine counterparts in DC on April 30. I’m sure there are other topics but this has to be on the agenda, along with more resources for the Philippine military.

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  15. This is still going on. (Began April 8) Chinese says they are ready to counter any Philippine escalation and continue to fish and patrol the area with their government vessels. The Philippines is keeping ships on scene. The Secretary of State Clinton, has offered assurance that the US will honor its obligations under the Mutual Defense Treaty. There is a summary of the treaty in this report from Manila. http://www.interaksyon.com/article/31528/dfa-chief-enumerates-u-s–commitments-to-ph-in-case-china-attacks-filipino-forces-in-spratlys

    There is also a report that the Philippines will soon be getting a surplus Italian Frigate, the Soldati, in addition to the former USCGC Dallas.

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  16. Yes this is still going on, almost seven weeks now. Reportedly as of Tuesday the Chinese had five maritime surveillance ships and many fishing vessels there in spite of a previously reported ban on fishing in the area by both China and the Philippines.

    Meanwhile the Philippines has been having “unrelated/previously planned” visits by a US SSN, Indian warships, and three Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force ships on a training cruise.

    Japan has also said it intends to provide the Philippine Coast Guard with twelve cutters, two of the 78 meter (255 ft) 1,350 ton Shiretoko Class, and 10 40 meter cutters.

    A discussion of the Japanese position here: http://asw.newpacificinstitute.org/?p=11265

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  17. The Phil gov’t must modernize the Armed forces now or we we will lose all our islands in West Ph Sea…
    When Sec Clinton said that the will not take sides on Scarborough shoal stand off, chinese paramilitary and chinese fishermen flocks to the area ….What can we expect from our main treaty ally? They will resue us when china already invade us ? like WW2 ? History repeat itself….

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    • My understanding is that under UNLOS the “island” is so small it cannot be used as the basis for establishing a baseline for territorial sea. It is no one’s sovereign territory. Because it is inside the Philippines EEZ, the Philippines can make decisions regarding how it and the seas and seabed around it will be exploited.

      The Secretary of State’s position is that UNCLOS applies and she supports the Philippines position that this should go before the International Tribunal on Law of the Sea, where I’m sure she believes the decision would be in favor of the Philippines.

      So far, this is a fisheries dispute. The Philippines has not been invaded, and if they were, I would expect the US to act in accordance with the treaty.

      Meanwhile, you might want to look to the Cod Wars between Iceland and Great Britain to see how a small country succeeded in a similar dispute in the past. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars

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  19. Yes this is still going on.

    Conflict explained by Taiwanese cartoon here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/philippines/9259582/The-China-Philippines-dispute-explained-in-cartoon.html

    The US is talking about additional help with maintaining “Maritime Domain Awareness”: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/philippines/9328427/US-military-to-help-Philippines-monitor-coastal-waters.html

    The Philippines now has two ex-USCG WHECs and is expecting to get at least one more.

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  29. Now there is a report that the Chinese will post a division level garrison in the islands.
    http://thediplomat.com/flashpoints-blog/2012/07/23/more-prc-forces-into-south-china-sea/

    All the supposition has been that the Chinese aggressive stance in the South China Sea is motivated by possible oil and gas deposits, but there is also the possibility that they want to use the areas that would otherwise be other nation’s EEZ to lay acoustic arrays or other sensors to detect submarines and other military forces entering this area that is sensitive for them.

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